Episode #8 Which Master are you serving? Jesus or the World? Mega Churches?

0:00 SPEAKER_02: Take that verse out of your Bible, man.

0:01 SPEAKER_02: Take the necklace off.

0:02 SPEAKER_02: It's either you're with him or you're not.

0:05 SPEAKER_02: Jesus says a house divided cannot stand.

0:08 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

0:09 SPEAKER_02: You cannot serve two masters.

0:11 SPEAKER_02: You can only serve one.

0:13 SPEAKER_02: You can either willingly bow a knee to his lordship right now, today.

0:20 SPEAKER_02: You can repent of this madness that you're doing right now.

0:24 SPEAKER_02: Or you can unwillingly bend a knee to him when you stand before him when you die.

0:36 SPEAKER_02: Welcome back.

0:37 SPEAKER_02: Another episode of Call and Running.

0:39 SPEAKER_02: It's good to be here.

0:40 SPEAKER_02: My name is General Rowland here with Uncle Cody, Dakota Christensen.

0:44 SPEAKER_02: How are we doing?

0:45 SPEAKER_02: It's a late night.

0:47 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

0:47 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're burning midnight oil.

0:49 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, man.

0:50 SPEAKER_02: It's been a long start to the week, and it's only Tuesday.

0:54 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

0:55 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

0:55 SPEAKER_02: Gosh, I got up super early this morning.

0:58 SPEAKER_02: My family was out of town in Colorado taking care of the dog, and he is he's just been a nightmare.

1:04 SPEAKER_02: He's wanting to sleep all day and up all night.

1:06 SPEAKER_02: So that means I'm up all day and I'm up all night.

1:09 SPEAKER_02: But praise God, we're here and we're gonna we're gonna get in the word.

1:12 SPEAKER_02: And uh we got we got two topics we're gonna try to hit tonight.

1:15 SPEAKER_02: We're gonna talk about people who think they are safe and they're actually not.

1:21 SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be super intense.

1:23 SPEAKER_02: And then hardcore emotional gear shift, we're gonna talk about the big, bad, evil mega churches after that.

1:31 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's gonna be a fun one.

1:33 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

1:34 SPEAKER_00: That seems to be like a big topic right now.

1:37 SPEAKER_02: So dude, for sure.

1:38 SPEAKER_02: There's a there's a lot of talk about about the megachurches, some of which came from my mouth, honestly, not too long ago.

1:45 SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna talk about that, dive into that.

1:49 SPEAKER_02: But should be good.

1:50 SPEAKER_02: So uh to start off, I think I think right now in our culture, people will just tag Christianity onto onto their person as as like more of a cultural thing rather than an actual relationship with with the Lord.

2:11 SPEAKER_02: And I'm not saying that that's the case for everybody because there's definitely a lot of people who who openly reject Christianity and they will openly admit, hey, I want nothing to do with that.

2:21 SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, there's still a lot of people who will attach attach Jesus and Christianity as sort of like an add-on to their life when really he should be their their entire life, and they're just not really understanding what it means to follow Jesus and what it means to be a Christian.

2:39 SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm saying?

2:40 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

2:41 SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think a lot of it too is like we've talked about in the past, just pastors in the pulpit, yeah.

2:49 SPEAKER_00: Not discipling their flock properly, not not giving them the cold, hard truth.

2:55 SPEAKER_00: You know, they want to like sugarcoat it and it makes everybody kind of feel like they can play in this, you know, play in church phase type of thing.

3:04 SPEAKER_00: And they think that, you know, I can I can put a smile on and act like I got it all together in church and I can claim that I'm following Jesus because it looks cool to everybody in the building.

3:16 SPEAKER_00: And then as soon as I get in my car, I'm, you know, listening to young Dolph and everything else driving down the road and you know, and just being a fool, you know, because it just it looks cool, you know, it's it's what society claims is acceptable.

3:30 SPEAKER_00: And I think that starts with the pulpit, really, in my opinion, as well as a lot of people in the church that are that are followers of Jesus, just not stepping up to want to disciple people and and show them the truth, you know, like what it actually looks like to follow Jesus, you know.

3:50 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that's a great point.

3:52 SPEAKER_02: You know, I think um I think people also have their eye on a lot of other people in the church rather than strictly the pastor.

3:59 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the pastor is supposed to be setting the the lead example for what it looks like to know and follow Jesus.

4:05 SPEAKER_02: But if you're if somewhat involved in the church community, if you're not in and out and secretly trying to hide from everybody in there, if you're a part of these people's lives, then you're gonna be looking at them too.

4:15 SPEAKER_02: And I think people are really good imitators of actions.

4:18 SPEAKER_02: They are good imitators of words too, but primarily actions.

4:22 SPEAKER_02: So people are looking at you and being like, okay, bro, what what are the steps that that I'm seeing in your walk that that you were taken to to know and follow Jesus?

4:32 SPEAKER_02: And if I'm not setting a good example, then I'm sending the message to all believers or maybe new believers that are in your church or or maybe in your family, in your community, whatever, your friends, you're you're sending a message to them that says the way that I'm living in unrepentant sin is okay.

4:50 SPEAKER_02: And you don't need to where am I trying to take this?

4:55 SPEAKER_02: It's okay if you if you reflect my image and and how I'm following Jesus when in actuality that's not true.

5:02 SPEAKER_02: I mean, Jesus told us that, hey, don't take don't take eat the the leaven of the Pharisees, you know.

5:07 SPEAKER_02: And Pharisees were in the gospel super super big on saying one thing, you know, and and doing a completely opposite thing.

5:15 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I mean, I think when you when you talk about the Pharisees, they were just kind of stuck in themselves, you know, and stuck at like the the money and the riches and the food and you know and the status, you know, as well.

5:30 SPEAKER_00: And I think that happens even nowadays in some churches, you know.

5:35 SPEAKER_00: And we can talk about that, you know, when we talk about the megachurches, you know.

5:38 SPEAKER_00: I think there are some out there that you could probably consider living like a Pharisee type of lifestyle, you know, or leading the church in that way.

5:49 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

5:50 SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure there's probably some stuff that we can say about that that'll probably ruffle some feathers, but I mean, hey, the truth is the truth and scripture calls it out, so that's what we're here for.

6:01 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.

6:03 SPEAKER_02: I mean, kind of going back to to that original statement going into this, that there's a there's a bunch of people that that think they are Christian, they think they are saved, and they necessarily are not.

6:17 SPEAKER_02: And one, gosh, I cannot tell you how many times I've I've heard this.

6:22 SPEAKER_02: So kind of my go-to line when I'm evangelizing is which I heard Bryce Crawford say this on the on the Sean Ryan podcast.

6:30 SPEAKER_02: And it's such a such an effective strategy for getting to know somebody's heart when you're evangelizing to them.

6:36 SPEAKER_02: Ask them on a scale one to ten.

6:38 SPEAKER_02: If you were to die, God forbid, what are the sh what are the chances out of ten you'll make it to heaven?

6:44 SPEAKER_02: You know the amount of times that that somebody has told me a 10 out of all the times I've I've evangelized, or they do the whole 60%, 70%, oh yeah, you know, 85%.

6:54 SPEAKER_00: It's like, buddy, where are you getting that number from?

6:57 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.

6:58 SPEAKER_02: There's been zero people.

7:00 SPEAKER_02: Not a single person has confidently told me the answer is 10.

7:04 SPEAKER_02: I'm going to heaven because because of Jesus' death on the cross, and I've place my my my trust and I and my belief in him.

7:12 SPEAKER_02: And we'll talk about that word belief here in a little bit because it means more than just thinking something happened.

7:17 SPEAKER_02: Right.

7:17 SPEAKER_02: But I'll kind of kind of talk to them because the my the the casual answer will be like a like a five or a seven or eight, uh, whatever.

7:25 SPEAKER_02: It's just not a ten, somewhere in the middle.

7:28 SPEAKER_02: And it always has to, it always comes back to, oh, I I said a I said like a seven because I'm a good person, but I've got some things I need to work on.

7:36 SPEAKER_02: So what you'll see now is people will slap the the label Christian on their forehead and and attribute that to their good works and the good things that they do.

7:46 SPEAKER_02: And based on this Christian scale, on their one through ten scale, though it'll be based on on how good of a person they are.

7:53 SPEAKER_02: When that you added it, that's not what it means to be a Christian.

7:57 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

7:58 SPEAKER_00: Or I mean, I think it it's it's it's even on the scale of like how people see them, right?

8:04 SPEAKER_00: You know, like how many friends they have, you know, in the church or like how many events they've been to or whatever.

8:15 SPEAKER_00: I think that's that's more common than anything, where people just kind of feel like, you know, well, I'm just a likable person, so it must mean that I'm, you know, that I'm saved because everybody just kind of like gravitates towards me.

8:29 SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I've made all these friends and they're asking me to do this and asking me to do that.

8:34 SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people get lost in that and kind of think that that just means automatically that, you know, they're part of the family, you know, that they're saved and that it's, you know, they don't have to do anything, you know, or like and I think they just get lost in that fact and they're missing the whole point of what the gospels tell us.

8:53 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

8:53 SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's going back to Romans 3, kind of passage.

8:56 SPEAKER_02: Everybody knows there's nobody good, there's no nobody that's righteous, there's not one person that's good, and that includes myself, you.

9:04 SPEAKER_02: It includes everybody listening, it includes everybody on on this earth right now.

9:08 SPEAKER_02: There is nobody good because we have all transgressed, we've all fallen short of the glory of God at some point in our lives.

9:15 SPEAKER_02: And because of that, because the standard is perfection and there is no imperfection in heaven, there needs to be a perfect sacrifice in our place, and that sacrifice is Jesus.

9:26 SPEAKER_02: So the first thing that we need to do, if if you find yourself on that boat and you label yourself as a Christian because you're a good person or you you did good things, or you gave the homeless dude five bucks or whatever, you held the door for the old lady.

9:39 SPEAKER_02: The first thing you need to do is you need to recognize that there's a bar and you've missed it.

9:44 SPEAKER_02: You've fallen short of God's perfect standard, and you need to recognize your need.

9:49 SPEAKER_02: The first thing you need is need.

9:51 SPEAKER_02: You need the grace of God.

9:53 SPEAKER_02: That that's a very that's the only common thing that all human beings share.

9:58 SPEAKER_02: It's it's our need for grace, it's our need for Jesus.

10:02 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

10:03 SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think it's it's really important too.

10:06 SPEAKER_00: Like in the in the in that in that lifestyle, man, like if you can't honestly say, you know, like my wife asked me this the other day.

10:20 SPEAKER_00: If you had somebody that came to you and said, either you renounce your faith or you're going to die, what would your answer be?

10:32 SPEAKER_00: You know, would you be a Peter who basically just denies Jesus three times that you know after the rooster crows?

10:41 SPEAKER_00: Or are you just gonna say, oh yeah, go right on ahead because I'm going to a much better place?

10:47 SPEAKER_00: And as a human, it's absolutely hard to just be like, yeah, absolutely, go on ahead and pop me, right?

10:55 SPEAKER_00: But I think that that's something that all of us can really reflect on and think about, you know, if we were ever faced with that situation, you know, what our answer would be.

11:06 SPEAKER_00: And ultimately, I think hearing your answer on that should really help you see where you're at and get you to a point to where you're almost like ready to surrender to that fact.

11:28 SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, if somebody were to put a gun to your head right now and say, renounce your renounce your God or you're dead, you know, all of us should be able to get to the point where we're like, okay, do it, because I'm not, I'm not doing that.

11:40 SPEAKER_00: You know, we've got people in Africa right now.

11:42 SPEAKER_00: You know, we've got people in other countries, third world countries, that are dying for their faith doing the exact thing that we're talking about right now.

11:51 SPEAKER_00: You know, they're being told that I'm gonna slaughter you, I'm gonna slaughter your family, I'm gonna rape your wife, I'm gonna do all these things unless you renounce your faith.

11:59 SPEAKER_00: And they're like, I'm not gonna renounce my faith.

12:02 SPEAKER_00: Like, Jesus Christ is my Lord, so you're gonna do what you're gonna do.

12:05 SPEAKER_00: You know, and I think that it's important that in the United States we we really reflect on that, you know, and and get to a point to where we could honestly say that we would welcome that same fate for Jesus.

12:21 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because he did the same thing for us.

12:24 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.

12:25 SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you're a professing Christian, the answer has to be yes to that question.

12:31 SPEAKER_02: If somebody is holding a gun to your head and they said, Denounce, denounce Jesus or you die.

12:36 SPEAKER_02: The answer has got to be pull the trigger, bro.

12:39 SPEAKER_02: It's got to be.

12:40 SPEAKER_02: And when I think about the the Christians, the brothers and sisters that are in in Africa, like Nigeria right now, and these people are staring death in the face and refusing to deny Jesus as their savior.

12:53 SPEAKER_02: I look to them and I'm like, that is the heroes of the faith, man.

12:58 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you said that in group last night.

12:59 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we cannot get comfortable with the privileges that we have in this country.

13:06 SPEAKER_02: We are so blessed beyond measure.

13:08 SPEAKER_02: To us, persecution is a hateful Instagram comment or or somebody not refusing to they're refusing to have a conversation with you at work.

13:17 SPEAKER_02: Whatever, man.

13:18 SPEAKER_02: Nobody, there's no there's nobody really dying for their faith in Jesus right now, and we cannot take that for granted because we are standing on centuries of faithful men and women who have prayed over the over this nation and people who have instilled Christian principles into this nation.

13:38 SPEAKER_02: Like it this we are standing on the backbone of faithful men and women who have come before us.

13:44 SPEAKER_02: And if we get lazy with that, we're gonna lose it.

13:47 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

13:48 SPEAKER_02: Then that's a that's a whole podcast episode in itself.

13:52 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

13:53 SPEAKER_02: Better not get get off in the weeds in that one.

13:56 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.

13:58 SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I mean, we get to do I mean, we do we are really nothing, man.

14:02 SPEAKER_02: Like we don't we don't do anything for the Lord when you think of it.

14:07 SPEAKER_02: He does not need us at all.

14:10 SPEAKER_02: We I mean we we're the ones that need him.

14:13 SPEAKER_02: Do you think you think God's up there in heaven, like, hey, I'm I I I need you guys to to make that podcast episode or lead that small group.

14:21 SPEAKER_02: No, he doesn't he doesn't need that out of us at all.

14:25 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

14:25 SPEAKER_02: But he wants us, man.

14:26 SPEAKER_02: And we get to do ministry from from the comfort of this beautiful studio and uh the comfort of our church, you know.

14:35 SPEAKER_02: And also, I mean, outside of the walls of our church and and the studio, we get to do it, and we're not like I said, we're not getting getting killed for it.

14:44 SPEAKER_02: But yeah, anyways, moral moral of the story is Jesus has to be something that you would if needed be okay with dying with, dying for, excuse me.

14:57 SPEAKER_02: Because he first bled and died for us.

15:00 SPEAKER_02: You know.

15:02 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, he's the ultimate hero.

15:06 SPEAKER_00: You know, I I mean at the end of the day, like with him being all God, right?

15:14 SPEAKER_00: Like, he could have just as easily been like, yeah, you know what?

15:18 SPEAKER_00: I'm not doing this.

15:19 SPEAKER_00: You know?

15:20 SPEAKER_00: They can just face the father's wrath.

15:23 SPEAKER_00: It'll be fine.

15:24 SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna go on, keep doing my ministry and keep doing my thing, you know.

15:27 SPEAKER_00: He could have easily done that.

15:28 SPEAKER_00: He could have easily struck everybody dead in the moment if he wanted to, and just walked away.

15:34 SPEAKER_00: But he didn't.

15:35 SPEAKER_00: You know, he took every lick and just every evil moment and did nothing but just turn the other cheek and meet everybody with grace in the moment.

15:47 SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can't I can't say it enough, you know.

15:51 SPEAKER_00: You know, father forgive them for they know not what they do.

15:55 SPEAKER_00: You know, like that is just something that's forever imprinted in my brain.

15:58 SPEAKER_00: Because I could tell you right now, if people were doing that to me, I I I doubt I'd be saying the same thing.

16:05 SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't think any of us would.

16:07 SPEAKER_00: No.

16:08 SPEAKER_00: And it's just insane the fact that the the man that he was, you know, the fact that he took that like a champ, you know, because he knew what his mission on earth was.

16:23 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he was fulfilling prophecy after prophecy after prophecy of the old testament, and he would he knows that the father put him on this earth to do just that.

16:34 SPEAKER_00: And he knew that he was going to be putting us back in right standing.

16:39 SPEAKER_00: And I think it's it's very, very important that, you know, it's like James says it all the time.

16:46 SPEAKER_00: Matt Tuning says it, Joby Martin says it, you know, all of those guys that I I thoroughly enjoy listening to when they preach because you can tell that they have a special anointing on their life.

16:58 SPEAKER_00: Like they're actually doing what God's called them to do.

17:01 SPEAKER_00: And they tell us all the time, you know, like, man, this playing church stuff has to go.

17:08 SPEAKER_00: It's got to go.

17:09 SPEAKER_00: Like this, this whole like one foot in, one foot out, playing this game, like, you know, Philip Anthony Mitchell, man, like it he's like, you know, he's up there throwing Mike Tyson Mike Tyson haymakers at us from the dang stage.

17:24 SPEAKER_00: Like, guys, if you guys are not going to take this seriously, then go live your life.

17:29 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

17:30 SPEAKER_00: Get out of here.

17:31 SPEAKER_00: God doesn't need us.

17:33 SPEAKER_00: He doesn't need your games, he doesn't need your crap.

17:36 SPEAKER_00: If you're not going to take this seriously and you're not going to follow him, then what are you here for?

17:41 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

17:42 SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, I'm sure there is somebody else that didn't get to make it into that church service because it was so packed and there was no chairs that would have loved to sit in that chair and actually take it seriously.

17:55 SPEAKER_00: You know, and it's like you just said a few minutes ago, like there are people being murdered and martyred overseas right now for their faith that would love to have the opportunity that we have in this country.

18:11 SPEAKER_00: They would love to be at a cross point or a lake, like you know, Lake Point, or you know, any any of these, you know, 28-19, you know, any of these churches.

18:23 SPEAKER_00: They would love to have the opportunity to be able to worship freely like that and hear the word like that and not feel like they have to go underground with it and then like watch their every step, leaving wherever they just got done having church at to make sure they're not going to get shot in the back of the head from somebody.

18:42 SPEAKER_00: You know?

18:42 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

18:43 SPEAKER_00: I mean, sure, you can say that stuff has happened, especially recently.

18:48 SPEAKER_00: You know, we had Charlie Kurt, you know.

18:51 SPEAKER_00: There there has been things like that that have happened, but but man, like that is that is you know, not not to discredit that at all, but that is such a tiny, small, minuscule thing compared to what those people are going through.

19:06 SPEAKER_00: You know, like you can't even preach the gospel on the streets in Europe right now.

19:11 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're arresting people in Europe for praying in their head.

19:15 SPEAKER_02: Thinking thoughts towards God.

19:17 SPEAKER_02: They're arresting people for confessing that they were praying in their head.

19:21 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

19:22 SPEAKER_02: And I mean, we're I'll be honest though, I mean, there could be a day in our lifetimes that we see that happen and play out in this country.

19:30 SPEAKER_02: Would not put that past us.

19:33 SPEAKER_02: But I mean, to take it a step further, if you're gonna live that sort of life, take that verse out of your Instagram bio, man.

19:40 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

19:41 SPEAKER_02: Take that necklace off.

19:43 SPEAKER_02: Stop wearing the shirts.

19:44 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, don't wear the shirts, man.

19:47 SPEAKER_02: You are destroying the witness of faithful men and women who are representing Jesus, who are following him with their whole heart.

19:55 SPEAKER_02: I mean, it just it it makes it hard for me pursuing my one more.

20:03 SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna listen by name, but they see people who who claim it, name it, slap it on their forehead.

20:12 SPEAKER_02: They're all about the the Jesus, Jesus thing is what they'll say.

20:16 SPEAKER_02: They got the tattoos, yeah.

20:18 SPEAKER_02: But man, they're just living in straight up rebellion, unrepentance.

20:25 SPEAKER_02: Take that verse out of your Bible, man.

20:27 SPEAKER_02: Take the necklace off.

20:28 SPEAKER_02: It's either you're with him with or you're not.

20:31 SPEAKER_02: Jesus says a house divided cannot stand.

20:33 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

20:35 SPEAKER_02: You cannot serve two masters, you can only serve one.

20:39 SPEAKER_02: You can either willingly bow a knee to his lordship right now, today.

20:46 SPEAKER_02: You can repent of this madness that you're doing right now, or you can unwillingly bend a knee to him when you stand before him when you die.

20:55 SPEAKER_02: Every knee will bow, that includes yours.

20:58 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

20:59 SPEAKER_02: So repentance is a serious thing.

21:01 SPEAKER_02: Your sin is a serious thing.

21:03 SPEAKER_02: I will I'll look look back at Isaiah 6.

21:07 SPEAKER_02: So Prophet Isaiah in the Old Testament had an interaction with the with the preincarnate Jesus.

21:14 SPEAKER_02: And there was there was angels sitting around the throne that he was seated on, and the angels were were covering their eyes because of his holiness.

21:25 SPEAKER_02: And when Isaiah had this encounter with with the with Jesus, he goes, Woe is me, man.

21:32 SPEAKER_00: He fell on his face.

21:33 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he couldn't even look at him.

21:35 SPEAKER_00: You know, he fell straight on his face and was just, you know, woe is me.

21:40 SPEAKER_00: You know, like I couldn't imagine you know, that experience, but it's gonna happen one day.

21:47 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

21:49 SPEAKER_02: Man, he was so grieved by his sin.

21:54 SPEAKER_02: He he felt the weight of it because of how far it was away.

22:01 SPEAKER_02: From from Jesus, from his holiness.

22:06 SPEAKER_02: I don't think we have a a clear grasp on how much our sin separates us from God.

22:14 SPEAKER_02: And I think a question that our listeners need to ask themselves have you ever gotten to the point where you just shed tears over the broken state of your heart?

22:27 SPEAKER_02: Or the point where you shed tears because of how grateful you are that Jesus sent an offensive rescue mission on your behalf and went and died on the cross for you and he pulled you out of the pit that you were in.

22:42 SPEAKER_02: Do you have have you ever had one of those moments?

22:46 SPEAKER_02: Do you just feel gripped by the Holy Spirit during those moments?

22:51 SPEAKER_02: If not, I'm not saying you're not saved, but I'm saying check your heart.

22:55 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

22:56 SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying that at all.

22:57 SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying you're not saved.

22:59 SPEAKER_02: But what I am saying is that you might be, God might be calling you to turn away from your sin right now and turn turn in faith to Jesus, and He will separate your sin from you as far as East is from the West.

23:16 SPEAKER_02: Kind of taking a different direction.

23:29 SPEAKER_02: It's like, what are we doing here?

23:30 SPEAKER_02: That's like saying watching baseball on TV makes me a baseball player.

23:34 SPEAKER_02: That's like saying sticking my head on the stove makes me a grilled cheese.

23:38 SPEAKER_02: Like it just it doesn't work like that, man.

23:41 SPEAKER_00: Well, uh even more so, uh not even watching baseball on TV.

23:45 SPEAKER_00: It's like picking up baseball bat and a baseball and thinking that you're Alex Rodriguez.

23:51 SPEAKER_00: You know, the other thing that I see too, like, and and I see it in our church, I've seen it in every church that I've ever been in, man, is like that end worship, everybody like starts getting up, jetting out to go get in their car to beat the traffic.

24:06 SPEAKER_00: It's like you're missing the whole point.

24:08 SPEAKER_00: Like, uh do people not understand like what that moment's for?

24:13 SPEAKER_00: Like that moment is to answer the calling that you just heard during that sermon.

24:20 SPEAKER_00: You know, you have, you know, we've got 9 a.m., 11, and 1 on Sundays.

24:26 SPEAKER_00: So you're telling me uh if you go to the 1 o'clock, right, that by you you have to rush out of there at 2 30 for what?

24:36 SPEAKER_00: You know, it don't get dark till 9 o'clock.

24:39 SPEAKER_00: So you got all kinds of daylight to go do whatever it is that you gotta do, and you can't stay for two songs, you know, in a prayer.

24:48 SPEAKER_00: I mean, especially like when people are professing their faith publicly in baptism, you know, and I see people get up and like trying to jet out the door.

24:56 SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like it's so crazy to to watch that.

25:00 SPEAKER_00: And and it's like going back to what you're saying, like I'm not trying to condemn people here, you know, like we're all human, we're all gonna fall short.

25:09 SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we're even I, I'm sure you, we miss the point on things sometimes.

25:14 SPEAKER_00: Every day, you know, and and we and we miss the the idea of it, we think back on it, and we're like, dang, I'm such a fool.

25:20 SPEAKER_00: Why'd I do that?

25:21 SPEAKER_00: Or why did I, you know, make why'd I say that or whatever.

25:24 SPEAKER_00: But I, you know, just coming from from a pace uh a place of transparency and humility here, like speaking for the viewers, like ask yourself, man, like if you're a person that's doing that, do you feel like you're saved, right?

25:47 SPEAKER_00: Like, did you do you feel like you got anything from the 45 minutes that you just sat there and listened to your pastor preach?

25:56 SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can say that by 98.999% of the sermons, I'm dang near in tears by the time we're at the end of it.

26:06 SPEAKER_00: So when we're doing that last worship, like that is me like receiving that message and really letting it work on my heart.

26:15 SPEAKER_00: You know, like if you're not feeling that by the end of the sermon, and you just think, oh, well, that wasn't at me, or that that didn't line up with what I'm going through right now, like, man, we really might need to look into the heart posture there.

26:31 SPEAKER_00: You know, because I I there is not a sermon that I don't get something, some type of conviction, some type of reflection, you know, moment, some type of revelation from God, you know, telling me, hey, that's you.

26:46 SPEAKER_00: Or hey, you've done that before, or hey, that's your friend in your group doing that exact thing.

26:52 SPEAKER_00: Here's the ammunition, you need to go have a conversation with them.

26:55 SPEAKER_00: You know, there is not a time that I don't get something out of the sermon, and all of those will grieve your heart.

27:02 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

27:03 SPEAKER_00: You know, and if you're if you're one of those people, you know, I love you, and I'm not, I would, I'm not telling you stop doing what you're doing as far as like just don't believe in God, because I don't want that.

27:17 SPEAKER_00: I I want the best for you.

27:19 SPEAKER_00: But man, like if you're one of those people that's like wearing the cross necklace and wearing the Jesus shirts and wearing the hoodies and got the sticker on your car, and but you're the first person getting up to jet out to go beat the traffic on every Sunday, or you're the one that's you know, throwing the verses on your Facebook or on your TikTok and sharing all the stuff, like you know, and that's just one example.

27:47 SPEAKER_00: Like, man, you need to pray.

27:56 SPEAKER_00: Because if you're if you're able to do that, man, to me, to say I got nothing from that message, that's basically like saying you're perfect and you got it all together.

28:09 SPEAKER_00: You've got it all figured out.

28:12 SPEAKER_00: You were just there because it's Sunday and everybody is going to church and you didn't want to look like the fool that stayed home.

28:17 SPEAKER_00: So you just showed up to show up.

28:20 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

28:21 SPEAKER_02: That's not to say that God can't work with impure motives because he absolutely does and is doing still to this day.

28:29 SPEAKER_02: Well, I think I think what you what you're kind of seeing too a little bit is we've got a bunch of Judases in the church.

28:37 SPEAKER_02: We've got people doing the church things, attending the church, you know, maybe even serving.

28:43 SPEAKER_02: They've got their hands and and and feet and and all the Jesus things, but it it's it's just a faked salvation, you know.

28:53 SPEAKER_02: Nothing's real.

28:54 SPEAKER_02: There was never any sort of heart posture that says, I'm I want to turn in faith to Jesus and I want to turn away from my sin.

29:03 SPEAKER_02: You know, and that's ultimately what what happened with what with Judas in scripture.

29:08 SPEAKER_02: I mean, he was walking with Jesus for three and a half years.

29:13 SPEAKER_02: I mean, he's he's heard the sermons, he's seen the miracles, he's been a part of the things, he's had his hands in the things, but he never knew him, you know, he never had an intimate relationship with him.

29:26 SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a lot of people, maybe even the guys sitting next to you at church, man.

29:32 SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of people that are like that.

29:35 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

29:36 SPEAKER_00: And I mean, and we can even go as far to say, too, the ones that do know Jesus, the ones that are following him, the ones that are submitted to him, there's a lot that can be said to us too.

29:48 SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of the reason why people are in church playing church and doing those things is because we aren't going out of our way to step up and witness to them and make sure that they really understand what it is that we're doing, you know, when we're when we're together in the body of the church.

30:06 SPEAKER_00: I mean, at the end of the day, it's just a building, right?

30:09 SPEAKER_00: You know, like us being present, our coming together as a body, that's the church.

30:15 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

30:16 SPEAKER_00: You know, we can do it anywhere.

30:17 SPEAKER_00: But, you know, when we're coming to church on Sunday together, you know, if us as the believer is just kind of going in there and just going through the motions and we see somebody that's living that way, man, it's important for us too to kind of be like, hey, you know, can I talk with you?

30:37 SPEAKER_00: You know, because I just want to make sure that that you're okay.

30:40 SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna make I want to make sure that your heart posture is in the right spot because I love you and I care about you.

30:46 SPEAKER_00: And I think that's, you know, I think all the way around we all fall short in in both sides of the coin.

30:53 SPEAKER_00: And I think that we could all be much more intentional in doing that.

30:57 SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like we said in group the other night, you know, we do this whole thing of, you know, people ask for prayer requests.

31:05 SPEAKER_00: And how many times do we go, oh yeah, man, I got you.

31:08 SPEAKER_00: I'll pray for you, and then we don't.

31:11 SPEAKER_00: You know, and I've kind of I've had that kind of revelation with myself of like, man, there is times that I get carried away and I forget.

31:21 SPEAKER_00: I might pray hours later, you know, or it may be one of those things where like, you know, I'm trying to push myself now to be so intentional that instead of saying, yeah, I'll do that, calling them.

31:35 SPEAKER_00: Like that's something that I'm trying to push myself to do right now.

31:38 SPEAKER_00: And it's hard because you never know if it's a good time, you know, if they're working or whatever.

31:43 SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just as simple as saying, hey, can I call you real quick?

31:46 SPEAKER_00: You know, so you know, for the viewers, like that's something I'm trying to work on, you know, that God's working on me with because like how many times do we do that?

31:56 SPEAKER_00: You know, or we'll send them a prayer and a text.

31:59 SPEAKER_00: I mean, and that's great.

32:00 SPEAKER_00: That's fine.

32:01 SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's really a wrong, right or wrong way to do it, but how much better would it be if you could just call them?

32:07 SPEAKER_00: You're gonna pray for them for what 45 seconds to a minute?

32:10 SPEAKER_00: You know, I I mean it's it's it would be so easy to just take time out of your day and just call them and say, hey, you know, can I pray for you real quick?

32:19 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, how much do you think that means to that person?

32:21 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

32:22 SPEAKER_02: A lot, man.

32:23 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

32:23 SPEAKER_02: A lot.

32:25 SPEAKER_02: Kind of moving to the next thing.

32:29 SPEAKER_02: Which this just makes no sense to me.

32:32 SPEAKER_02: But people that are slapping the name Christian on the on their forehead and they're saying, oh, he's okay with my sin, or oh, I'm I'm just uh I'm just the pro-choice Christian.

32:43 SPEAKER_02: I'm just the the LGBTQ Christian.

32:47 SPEAKER_02: I'm just the that Christian who who only who chooses not to read any of Paul's writings or whatever.

32:54 SPEAKER_02: Just picks and chooses, man.

32:57 SPEAKER_02: Well what kind of words we got for for for these fellas?

33:02 SPEAKER_00: Man, I mean, I could even go as far as today.

33:04 SPEAKER_00: I was watching the Bryce Crawford episode when he was talking to the LGBTQ pastor.

33:11 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

33:11 SPEAKER_00: The woman that she's uh she's lesbian and has a little girl that they adopted.

33:17 SPEAKER_00: Like, what abaze me with the thought process from people that believe these things is the oh well, Jesus doesn't actually call out homosexuality in the Bible.

33:31 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which that's not true at all.

33:32 SPEAKER_02: Jesus very clearly defines what marriage is.

33:36 SPEAKER_02: He says, a man will leave his father and mother and be joined with his wife, and the two will become one flesh.

33:42 SPEAKER_02: And Howerton does a great take on this.

33:44 SPEAKER_02: And so so he so he said that, which I mean he he pastors a giant or church out in Dallas.

33:52 SPEAKER_02: They've got a huge congregation.

33:54 SPEAKER_02: I think he said this in the sermon.

33:55 SPEAKER_02: Maybe it was maybe maybe the podcast, but he was like, he was like, I could either say somebody asked me who my wife is, I could either point at every single person in the congregation and say, That's not my wife, that's not my wife, that's not my wife, or he can point at his wife and say, Hey, look there, that's my wife.

34:14 SPEAKER_02: So the whole argument from silence thing is, oh well, Jesus never said anything about this.

34:19 SPEAKER_02: First of all, well, I mean, that's not true because he he because he did.

34:22 SPEAKER_02: By saying that when a man leaves his father and mother and will be joined with his wife and they will become one flesh, by implication, the rest are out.

34:31 SPEAKER_02: And also that argument doesn't work because it's repeated both Old and New Testament.

34:37 SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's uh Romans 1, you know, 1 Corinthians 6.

34:42 SPEAKER_02: Uh it's uh Sodom and Gomorrah, Old Testament.

34:44 SPEAKER_02: I mean, you just need a pair of scissors to get out of the Bible.

34:47 SPEAKER_02: It's just plastered all over the place.

34:50 SPEAKER_02: And and to uh to to my friends who are living in I'm I I have people I know who are living that that lifestyle.

35:01 SPEAKER_02: What I hope what I hope uh this message doesn't come across as is hateful, because that's not what it is.

35:10 SPEAKER_02: As Christians, we believe that that that God's commands are not burdensome and they lead to human flourishing.

35:16 SPEAKER_02: And when you look at the when you look at some of the statistics on people who live that lifestyle on the levels of anxiety, depression, suicide, and these sorts of things, you'll notice that the numbers are extremely higher than than the normal rate.

35:36 SPEAKER_02: So when when when we have these sort of conversations with people, I mean the goal is not to get them straight.

35:41 SPEAKER_02: The goal is to get them to Jesus because he's the one who's gonna create in them something new, just like he's done with all of us.

35:48 SPEAKER_02: I mean, we've all we all became, as scripture says, a new creation.

35:52 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

35:53 SPEAKER_02: When we s chose to start following him.

35:56 SPEAKER_02: And that's what we want for people living this lifestyle, you know?

36:01 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

36:02 SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I think I think where a lot of the animosity and hatred comes to on that subject, too, is like I think a lot of people get it wrong on the correct side of the coin of just like telling somebody that they they can't feel what they like.

36:24 SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's one of those things where like I hear the you know, oh well, you know, they're attracted to men or they're attracted to women, and they're they they're just born gay.

36:34 SPEAKER_00: And it's like you can still have those desires, but you can turn from those desires and follow Jesus.

36:43 SPEAKER_00: There is thousands of people out there.

36:46 SPEAKER_00: There are some that I've heard, and there's a couple that I've met that have sexual desires for the same sex, but turn from that and they follow Jesus.

36:56 SPEAKER_00: I know one that it that was gay that decided to get married and have kids with a woman.

37:03 SPEAKER_00: It's totally possible to struggle with those thoughts and put those thoughts to death and follow Jesus.

37:11 SPEAKER_00: It's it's totally possible.

37:13 SPEAKER_00: So where I think it gets lost a lot of times is people tell people, oh, well, you can't think that way, you can't have those thoughts.

37:20 SPEAKER_00: And I mean, it's totally wrong.

37:22 SPEAKER_00: You know, I think if if you genuinely feel that way, yeah, I think there's probably a chemical imbalance there, maybe there's past trauma, something that's maybe brought a lot of those feelings and thoughts on.

37:35 SPEAKER_00: But there's ways to deal with that.

37:38 SPEAKER_00: And there's biblical ways to deal with that.

37:41 SPEAKER_00: And ultimately, if you surrender your life to Jesus and you confess him as Lord, there is nothing that he can't do.

37:53 SPEAKER_00: There's nothing he can't fix, there's nothing he can't change, and he can absolutely save you from those desires and bring you to a righteous life where you're following his law, you're following what he called you to be, which is a husband and a father to children, you know, and loving a woman or loving a man, whatever you're whether you're male or female, you're loving what scripture tells you to love, which is your opposite sex.

38:23 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

38:24 SPEAKER_02: I think we see we see people approach it in a very non-Christ-like way.

38:30 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

38:31 SPEAKER_02: That's what I mean.

38:32 SPEAKER_02: The whole repent return to hell.

38:34 SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I just I can't stand when I see the those videos of the preachers and they're screaming at the top of their lungs, and it it it just sounds like it's a it's technically a gospel message, but it's just coming off in the most unchrist-like way possible.

38:49 SPEAKER_02: And I'm not talking like calling sin out.

38:52 SPEAKER_02: I think we're well, we are absolutely called to do that.

38:55 SPEAKER_02: And I'm if you're driving your car the wrong direction, how hateful would it be for me to not tell you that you're driving your car in a direction that leads to death, destruction, separation from God?

39:06 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

39:06 SPEAKER_02: There's a way to go about it.

39:08 SPEAKER_02: But let's let's let's pin that for we're probably gonna do a whole episode on that coming up soon.

39:13 SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's amazing how we sit here and we do these episodes and we like we start coming up with like topics for further episodes.

39:19 SPEAKER_00: It's kind of yeah, it's kind of cool.

39:21 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

39:22 SPEAKER_02: But yeah, the whole idea of I can have Jesus and my sin, it just it just doesn't work.

39:27 SPEAKER_02: I mean, going back to what we talked about earlier, you can't serve two masters.

39:30 SPEAKER_02: You're either gonna love one and hate the other.

39:31 SPEAKER_02: I mean, you just can't the house divided cannot stand.

39:34 SPEAKER_02: This either you're all in for Jesus or you're not.

39:38 SPEAKER_02: Jesus has called you to a life of of holiness, not because God wants you to follow his commandments, excuse me, not because not not because God needs you to follow his commandments for him, but rather he wants us to follow his commandments for us.

39:56 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

39:56 SPEAKER_02: Because God's commands lead to lead to life, they lead to human flourishing.

40:02 SPEAKER_02: And I don't think it takes an a rocket scientist to figure out that when people start straying away from God's commandments, chaos us usually follows.

40:12 SPEAKER_00: Oh almost 110% of the time it does.

40:16 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

40:17 SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's almost guaranteed that chaos is gonna follow that.

40:21 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

40:22 SPEAKER_02: I mean, speaking of chaos, gosh, it's something I which I'm getting off in the weeds here, but uh something I'm something I've been getting convicted about.

40:33 SPEAKER_02: I I'm gonna temporarily delete social media off my phone for an extended amount of time.

40:40 SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure how long.

40:41 SPEAKER_02: I think which, dude, I'm I'm so guilty of this too.

40:45 SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm I mean, I'm definitely not have everything figured out, far from having everything figured out, and there's things I still struggle with.

40:53 SPEAKER_02: And one of those things is is just unconsciously picking up my phone and and scrolling social media or whatever.

41:02 SPEAKER_02: What I've come to find is the more I do that, like the more unstable my emotions are.

41:07 SPEAKER_02: Because when you're scrolling your phone, man, I mean it's just one thing after another, nothing is consistent.

41:12 SPEAKER_02: You'll see you'll see somebody say this one day, and then the next day they're saying a completely different thing.

41:18 SPEAKER_02: And I think as humans, we look for something that's consistent, something that's not changing.

41:23 SPEAKER_02: And you're not finding that in Fox News, you're not finding that in the social media, but rather the thing that does not change is Jesus.

41:32 SPEAKER_02: And that's that's how I'm able to, which we talked about this last episode, to find peace going through storms, you know.

41:41 SPEAKER_02: Because if if I keep my eyes on what's consistent, what doesn't change, and that's God's opinions about me and what God has sitting said in wrote in stone through God's word, man, everything else just becomes so so much dimmer, you know.

41:56 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I mean what he's done for us never changes.

41:58 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

42:00 SPEAKER_00: You know, like the crucifixion and the resurrection will never change.

42:06 SPEAKER_00: That that will be that will forever be true.

42:09 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

42:10 SPEAKER_00: You know, until the end of time.

42:12 SPEAKER_00: You know, when all else dies off, God's worth God's word will be the only thing that remains.

42:19 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

42:20 SPEAKER_00: You know, like that, that's something to think about.

42:23 SPEAKER_00: You know, like when this earth is just dead and gone, his word will be the only thing that remains.

42:30 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

42:31 SPEAKER_00: You know, his kingdom will be the only thing that remains.

42:34 SPEAKER_00: Everything else will perish.

42:36 SPEAKER_00: You know, and that's just and it's just crazy to think about, you know.

42:42 SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you think about it, man, we've got thousands of years of words right here in this book that haven't changed.

42:51 SPEAKER_00: You know, of course there's different translations and whatnot, but it all just about says the same thing, just with, you know, some has a little more Hebrew than the other, some's a little harder to understand the other, but at the end of the day, I mean it's it's God's word, you know, and it doesn't change.

43:09 SPEAKER_00: And there's just so much beauty in it.

43:12 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

43:14 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is where um, I mean, this is our source, man.

43:17 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

43:18 SPEAKER_02: I mean, you want to hear from God, you open his word.

43:20 SPEAKER_02: As simple as that.

43:22 SPEAKER_02: I mean, a lot of people that complain about not hearing from God, I mean, the first question you gotta ask is, okay, are you getting in your word, man?

43:30 SPEAKER_02: And a lot of times the answer is no.

43:33 SPEAKER_02: But as we as we've kind of been talking about, which we got a little sidetracked, I'll admit, a couple times throughout the conversation.

43:42 SPEAKER_02: But uh, for the people who maybe think they're saved and not saved, one one clarification that I want to make, because I'll hear I know I we we both heard this a couple days just a couple days ago in our group chat.

43:58 SPEAKER_02: We had a guy who Had had fallen short and made some mistakes and started to question his salvation, just really struggling with some sin.

44:10 SPEAKER_02: What I would say to that person is you struggling with sin is not evidence that you are not saved, but rather it's confirmation that you are saved.

44:21 SPEAKER_02: Unsafe people don't struggle with sin.

44:24 SPEAKER_02: Well, because they don't realize they're sinning.

44:26 SPEAKER_02: They don't have the Holy Spirit.

44:27 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

44:28 SPEAKER_02: So if you're able to recognize that that you have a problem in your life and that you have the sin in front of you and it's affecting you spiritually and you and you know it, that's evidence that you are safe, bro.

44:42 SPEAKER_00: Because that's the Holy Spirit telling you, hey, hey, turn from that.

44:48 SPEAKER_00: Hey, that ain't right.

44:49 SPEAKER_00: Hey, don't say that thing.

44:51 SPEAKER_00: Hey, don't do that thing.

44:52 SPEAKER_00: You need to run from that thing.

44:54 SPEAKER_00: You know, if you're not hearing that, then you know, we can have a different d discussion.

45:01 SPEAKER_00: You know, like that, that's that's probably where we need to try and figure out really where you're at.

45:09 SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah.

45:10 SPEAKER_00: I mean, it just goes back to like I was saying earlier, you know, if if if a sermon's not convicting you, or if you're not opening up your Bible and you're not getting something from it, then I would really question, you know, why?

45:31 SPEAKER_00: Why is that?

45:34 SPEAKER_00: You know, I think more oftentimes than not, we think that God's quiet, but the problem is is we've we've allowed the enemy to get too loud in our head, and that's why God seems quiet.

45:47 SPEAKER_00: But I think that once we get to that point where we can we can realize that and take a deep breath, close our eyes, and ask the Holy Spirit to take control.

46:03 SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, it's like it's like I've I've said a few times lately in group, man, like scripture says it the enemy flees the name of Jesus.

46:12 SPEAKER_00: Flees, runs as hard and as fast as he can.

46:15 SPEAKER_00: He cowers, the enemy bows a knee.

46:18 SPEAKER_00: I people listen to what to listen to me with what I'm saying.

46:24 SPEAKER_00: The enemy bows to Jesus.

46:29 SPEAKER_00: Period.

46:30 SPEAKER_00: He has no power over him.

46:32 SPEAKER_00: None.

46:34 SPEAKER_00: You know, God said in the garden that there will come a man that will crush the head of the serpent, and Jesus was that man.

46:43 SPEAKER_00: He had this the serpent, the enemy, the devil, whatever you want to call him, he has no power when Jesus is present.

46:54 SPEAKER_00: And so if you feel like the enemy is loud, stop, take a deep breath, talk to him, pray to him, ask him to to heal whatever it is you're dealing with, or to rage war against the enemy on your behalf, whatever it is, strengthen the the the armor that that he's entrusted to you.

47:19 SPEAKER_00: And man, watch what he'll do.

47:22 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

47:23 SPEAKER_00: You know, the enemy will always flee.

47:26 SPEAKER_00: Period.

47:28 SPEAKER_02: Stop being stop speaking death over yourself, too.

47:31 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

47:32 SPEAKER_02: Start preaching the gospel to yourself.

47:35 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

47:35 SPEAKER_02: Speak life over yourself.

47:37 SPEAKER_02: You know, what's really interesting is the scripture says that the tongue has the power of life and death.

47:44 SPEAKER_02: And we know these things, like we know these scriptures, and yet we will still look at it ourselves in the mirror and point at us and look and just say, failure.

47:54 SPEAKER_02: You're a failure.

47:55 SPEAKER_02: You're a piece of crap.

47:56 SPEAKER_02: You're never gonna amount to anything.

47:58 SPEAKER_02: You're fat, you're ugly, you're all the things that are that are not good.

48:02 SPEAKER_02: Stop doing that, bro.

48:04 SPEAKER_02: You're taking a you're taking a knife and you're just stabbing yourself every time you're saying something like that.

48:09 SPEAKER_02: So why don't you change your perspective to how the Lord thinks about you?

48:15 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

48:16 SPEAKER_02: It's gonna do your life wonders, man.

48:19 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

48:20 SPEAKER_00: Well, it's like James just said this past weekend.

48:22 SPEAKER_00: You know, when you have the Holy Spirit in you and you're saying those things to yourself and you're feeling those types of ways, you're hurting him.

48:32 SPEAKER_00: When you're stabbing yourself and hurting yourself by saying, I'm fat and I'm ugly, or nobody loves me, or all these things, you're directly stabbing him because the Holy Spirit is in you and he's upon you.

48:47 SPEAKER_00: He is you.

48:49 SPEAKER_00: You know, he paid a price with his life to own you in the most beautiful way possible.

48:56 SPEAKER_00: And when you're speaking death over yourself like that, you're speaking death over him.

49:01 SPEAKER_00: You know, and like really stop and think about that.

49:04 SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not you that you're speaking death over.

49:10 SPEAKER_00: You know, and he he can totally redeem it.

49:14 SPEAKER_00: But when you're when you're doing those things, you're you're just you're basically just saying that you know you're not worthy and what he did on the cross wasn't enough.

49:25 SPEAKER_00: You know, like you are you are beautiful to him, especially.

49:31 SPEAKER_00: You know, like we are all made in his image, we all look different uh in the flesh, but inside the thing that matters is beautiful to him, it's perfect to him.

49:46 SPEAKER_00: It was made on purpose, wonderfully and beautifully made, like scripture says.

49:51 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, God does not make mistakes.

49:54 SPEAKER_00: Period.

49:56 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're not a mistake.

49:57 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you were here for a reason, and God has a plan and purpose for you.

50:01 SPEAKER_02: And those feel like empty words sometimes, but it's true.

50:04 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

50:05 SPEAKER_02: Because I'm repeating what the word of God says.

50:09 SPEAKER_02: The word of God says that he has a plan and purpose for your life.

50:15 SPEAKER_02: It's crazy to think about that.

50:17 SPEAKER_02: How the God of the He created everything, wrote down a little plan for your life, and it's better than anything you could ever draw up.

50:25 SPEAKER_02: To wrap up this kind of little section that we've been talking about, I would say to maybe the person who has never felt guilty at all for their sin, or they've never had a moment of faith where they turned away from their sin and turned in faith to Jesus.

50:48 SPEAKER_02: I would say, aren't you tired, man?

50:52 SPEAKER_02: Don't they get old?

50:55 SPEAKER_02: Aren't you wore out, man?

50:58 SPEAKER_02: Aren't you weary?

51:02 SPEAKER_02: I know I was.

51:03 SPEAKER_02: I was sick and tired of doing the things that this world said would would bring me life and and bring me joy and bring me comfort and satisfaction.

51:18 SPEAKER_02: This world will manipulate you in ways that you can't understand because scripture says that the enemy is is the God of this world, and he is going to do whatever he can to deceive you.

51:33 SPEAKER_02: And the and the tragedy of deception is you don't realize you're being deceived when you are lost in your sin and you don't even realize it.

51:43 SPEAKER_02: But there's time, man.

51:46 SPEAKER_02: There's time.

51:48 SPEAKER_02: Being in a relationship with the Lord is the most precious things.

51:53 SPEAKER_02: It's the most precious thing in life.

51:55 SPEAKER_02: It's what we were created for.

51:58 SPEAKER_02: We were created to commune with the Lord.

52:02 SPEAKER_02: That is the only design for life that that leads to flourishing, man.

52:08 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

52:08 SPEAKER_02: When you step outside of that that line, that's when you start seeing train wrecks like you might see in your in your life right now, if you're living in unrepentant sin, man, and you haven't turned in faith to Jesus, but there's time, man.

52:21 SPEAKER_02: You can do that.

52:22 SPEAKER_02: I mean, gosh, you can do that right now when you listen to this episode.

52:26 SPEAKER_02: I mean, if if there's something that has gripped your heart, man, you can turn in faith to him.

52:33 SPEAKER_02: And I would say you need to.

52:37 SPEAKER_02: You need to, bro.

52:39 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

52:40 SPEAKER_02: You want a hardcore emotional gear shift?

52:42 SPEAKER_02: Uh talk about magic megatches.

52:44 SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

52:45 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

52:46 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

52:46 SPEAKER_00: That's a that's a that's shifting into sixth gear right there.

52:50 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

52:51 SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.

52:52 SPEAKER_02: So I I started coming to Cross Point where we go to church, what was it, like January, February?

53:00 SPEAKER_02: Something like that.

53:01 SPEAKER_02: I have met you around that, somewhere around that timeline.

53:04 SPEAKER_02: Somewhere in there.

53:05 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was going to this, it was a smaller Baptist church, which, I mean, great church.

53:10 SPEAKER_02: Phenomenal church.

53:12 SPEAKER_02: Great people, their family to this day.

53:14 SPEAKER_02: Love all those guys to death.

53:16 SPEAKER_02: I kind of had this this sort of this negative view towards towards larger churches, like I guess you could say mega churches, which I don't I don't really like that term.

53:27 SPEAKER_02: But started coming to Cross Point, man, and realized, holy crap, I was so wrong.

53:36 SPEAKER_02: I was so wrong.

53:38 SPEAKER_02: Crosspoint has been it's been such a blessing to me.

53:42 SPEAKER_02: But big reason why I didn't want to come in the first place to a larger church is oh, there's too many people.

53:48 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

53:49 SPEAKER_02: Well you have to say, somebody who's kind of wrestling with that.

53:53 SPEAKER_02: It's not about that.

53:55 SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not about all the people.

53:59 SPEAKER_00: You know, I think it's I hear that a lot, and I'm like, why why are you worried about there being a thousand plus people there or ten thousand people plus there?

54:12 SPEAKER_00: Like you're going to church to gather and worship the best person in your life, the one that died for you.

54:23 SPEAKER_00: What does it matter?

54:25 SPEAKER_00: Why are you worried about all that?

54:27 SPEAKER_00: That is not important.

54:29 SPEAKER_00: But also, I can say that on some in some instances, man, like there's a reason why that many people go to that church.

54:39 SPEAKER_00: You know, we could talk about the Joel Olsteens and and all that, which I don't I don't agree with the prosperity gospel that he preaches.

54:47 SPEAKER_00: And there's a few others in there that I could mention, but I won't.

54:52 SPEAKER_00: But I've also seen a video recently because a lot of people like to label his church as a megachurch.

54:59 SPEAKER_00: But I don't know if you or the listeners have noticed lately, but there was an episode that I forget what the guy's name was.

55:09 SPEAKER_00: He's a YouTuber, but he ended up going to that church and sitting in on one of his sermons.

55:15 SPEAKER_00: And we're talking about like a football stadium, like an NFL football size arena that he preaches in.

55:23 SPEAKER_00: And there was maybe 150 people there.

55:28 SPEAKER_00: You know, like, which is just a testament to like it doesn't matter about the size of the building.

55:36 SPEAKER_00: If the doctrine that they're talking about is not legitimate, people are getting to that point where they're tired of being lied to and they're turning from that, which is great to see.

55:45 SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day, it's not about how many people go there.

55:48 SPEAKER_00: It's about is the doctrine good?

55:52 SPEAKER_00: Is what they're saying from the pulpit correct?

55:54 SPEAKER_00: Can you take what that man or you know, uh some churches have women up there?

55:59 SPEAKER_00: That's a whole nother subject that we could get into in another episode.

56:02 SPEAKER_00: But just whomever it is in the pulpit that's speaking up there, is what they're saying.

56:07 SPEAKER_00: Can you take that and look at the page and does it line?

56:13 SPEAKER_00: Is it true?

56:14 SPEAKER_00: Is it what scripture is saying?

56:16 SPEAKER_00: That's the biggest thing that matters in that building.

56:20 SPEAKER_00: And then are the people in there, are they, can you see the fruit present, you know, in the room?

56:30 SPEAKER_00: Is everybody just kind of hanging out on their phones and and dinking around and playing around and not even paying attention?

56:35 SPEAKER_00: Or is everybody amen and and and you know, hollering at the pastor, preach, you know, whatever it is.

56:42 SPEAKER_00: I mean, if that's happening where you're going, like, heck yeah, man, you're in the right spot because that means you're around other godly people.

56:50 SPEAKER_00: But man, like, stop worrying about the number of who's there.

56:54 SPEAKER_00: Stop worrying about the parking being crappy, stop worrying about the size of the building.

56:58 SPEAKER_00: Man, worry about the doctrine and worry about the encounter and the experience that you're gonna have with the Lord every time that you're there.

57:06 SPEAKER_00: And if you're blessed in that moment to meet friends and become part of that community and grow and flourish just as we have in ours, that's like that's just the icing on the cake, man.

57:17 SPEAKER_00: But I think, you know, you and I agree on the same thing.

57:21 SPEAKER_00: It is a true blessing to be able to sit and hear the word being preached from our leaders that we have at Cross Point.

57:34 SPEAKER_00: And that's that's that's you know, the fact that you can tell that they have a special anointing on their life, and what they're saying is coming directly off the page, and even their explanation and their and their breaking down of what the scripture is saying is legitimate.

57:49 SPEAKER_00: It tracks, it follows, it's true, it's it's real.

57:52 SPEAKER_00: It's not some junk.

57:54 SPEAKER_00: They're not picking one verse and spending 45 minutes telling you what whatever it is they think the verse means.

58:01 SPEAKER_00: You know, that's what's most important.

58:03 SPEAKER_00: That's what we need to be focusing on when we're trying to find a church home.

58:08 SPEAKER_00: You know, it doesn't matter if that place is a football arena or if it's next to the river and you're barefoot sitting in a, you know, sitting on a log.

58:15 SPEAKER_00: You know, is the doctrine true and can you see the fruit in the room?

58:19 SPEAKER_00: Can is can you feel the Holy Spirit there?

58:22 SPEAKER_00: That's the only thing that matters, in my opinion.

58:28 SPEAKER_02: So I I've been following a lot of a lot of Joby Martin stuff recently.

58:32 SPEAKER_02: Uh I think he's a phenomenal Bible Bible teacher.

58:35 SPEAKER_02: Listen to his podcast.

58:36 SPEAKER_02: I think it's awesome.

58:38 SPEAKER_02: One thing that really caught my attention on there because I I kind of had the mindset that it was really a big money grab, like when I looked at baby churches, but I mean I was wrong.

58:50 SPEAKER_02: So so what happened with Joby's church, 1122, in Jacksonville, they spent four million dollars to to renovate a Walmart down there.

59:00 SPEAKER_02: And they had critics out the wazoo, you know.

59:04 SPEAKER_02: Oh, you could have used this money to feed the homeless.

59:07 SPEAKER_02: You you could have used it to do all these things for for the homeless community and all that, and take care of the poor.

59:15 SPEAKER_02: But where they are now, they're now sending I think he said, I think he said$12 million a year.

59:26 SPEAKER_02: That's how much the money that the church and the congregation is is spending to sponsor compassion kids in Africa and releasing them from poverty in Jesus' name.

59:38 SPEAKER_02: So why why it's so awesome for us at our church is when we get to sit under this sort of leadership, they are discipling us how to be good stewards of everything God has given us, including money, you know, and and we're able to make disciples who make disciples, who make disciples, and we get to be generous with what God has blessed us with.

1:00:03 SPEAKER_02: So I was super wrong about megachurches in that aspect too, man.

1:00:07 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

1:00:08 SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think I think it's really easy to kind of look at churches like that and just be like, oh, like you said, it's money grab or you know, whatever.

1:00:17 SPEAKER_00: But I mean, have we ever stopped to think about when that money is spent to grow that church?

1:00:28 SPEAKER_00: How many more seats are available for people to hear the word, to have an encounter with God?

1:00:35 SPEAKER_00: Right.

1:00:36 SPEAKER_00: And, you know, Jay James says it all the time, you know, like he it's, oh, we're about to have the money conversation again.

1:00:44 SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, you know, and people roll their eyes.

1:00:48 SPEAKER_00: But man, like stop and think about it.

1:00:51 SPEAKER_00: You know, that$15 Netflix is subscription that you pay for every month, you have no problem with that.

1:00:59 SPEAKER_00: But you have a problem with throwing 20 bucks to help build a well in Africa.

1:01:05 SPEAKER_00: Like, that's what these churches are doing.

1:01:07 SPEAKER_00: You have a problem with that.

1:01:09 SPEAKER_00: I mean, it like we have no problem going and getting getting a burger, fries, and a drink for$30, you know, at the biggest burger joint in town.

1:01:22 SPEAKER_00: You know, we have no problem going and spending four or five, six hundred dollars on groceries.

1:01:28 SPEAKER_00: But you have a problem giving twenty dollars to a tie that your church to help feed a kid in need.

1:01:35 SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, I think we have the wrong idea.

1:01:39 SPEAKER_00: You know, why why like we're totally as as a society, we're missing the point, and we're calling, we're we're calling these pastors out for like their the building size and what they look like and all of these things.

1:01:51 SPEAKER_00: But that's that's not the point.

1:01:53 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

1:01:53 SPEAKER_00: The point is is to bring bring people to Jesus, bring them to the foot of Jesus, and give them the space to be able to do so.

1:02:02 SPEAKER_00: And with that, they ask for obedience.

1:02:06 SPEAKER_00: They're asking you in that moment to be obedient to the word and give.

1:02:13 SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter if and and Jesus does not give a dollar amount, guys.

1:02:19 SPEAKER_00: Like, that's the other thing that gets kind of misconstrued in this thing is there's no specific dollar amount that you're called to give.

1:02:28 SPEAKER_00: He just says to give generously.

1:02:31 SPEAKER_00: Whether that's five bucks, ten bucks, twenty bucks, fifty bucks, hundred bucks, whatever you're being called to give is enough.

1:02:39 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

1:02:40 SPEAKER_00: And that's just being obedient to scripture.

1:02:44 SPEAKER_00: You know, if the church the the the the thing that I like about cross point, I love the transparency that crosspoint has.

1:02:55 SPEAKER_00: In a sense of like almost like every other week, sometimes a couple times a month, we're being told what the money that has been given to the church is doing.

1:03:11 SPEAKER_00: And it's not just telling us, they're showing us, they're giving us videos and tangible evidence of what it is that our money is going to.

1:03:19 SPEAKER_00: And when you when you stop and think about it like that, like it's it's so cool to think that your measly$20 combined with the other 900 people in the rooms,$5,$10,$20, was able to raise up enough money to give these people water the cleanest water they've ever seen in their life.

1:03:39 SPEAKER_00: They're no longer having to drink out of a mud pit next to a lion anymore.

1:03:43 SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?

1:03:44 SPEAKER_00: They're not having to like, you know, poop in a hole in the corner of their house because we can provide them with bathrooms.

1:03:52 SPEAKER_00: You know, they're they're not having to do school on a rock in the middle of the desert.

1:03:57 SPEAKER_00: We're building schools for them, you know, for them to learn English, for them to learn about Jesus, for them to like, man, if that doesn't get you on fire and excited to give, you know, I I man, I I would question a lot of things from that, you know.

1:04:16 SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's it's it kind of bothers me, you know, when I hear these people like condemning churches for for doing what they're doing.

1:04:31 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

1:04:32 SPEAKER_02: You know, also another thing too, I would say, what are you doing about it?

1:04:35 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

1:04:36 SPEAKER_02: It's really easy to point a finger or to type on your keyboard, but what are you doing about it?

1:04:42 SPEAKER_02: What active steps are you taking to solve the problem that you've identified?

1:04:46 SPEAKER_02: That's step one.

1:04:47 SPEAKER_02: Step two is okay, game time.

1:04:50 SPEAKER_02: How do we fix this?

1:04:53 SPEAKER_02: I mean it it you you can't stop at step one.

1:04:57 SPEAKER_02: There's additional steps that you've got to take.

1:05:00 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, if you have if you if you're at a church that is that brings up tithing a lot and it bothers you, right?

1:05:11 SPEAKER_00: There is nothing wrong with going and having a conversation with your pastor and just saying, hey, you know, what are we doing in the outreach of this community?

1:05:22 SPEAKER_00: You know, what what what is it that our church is is doing with this?

1:05:26 SPEAKER_00: You have every right to ask.

1:05:28 SPEAKER_00: There's nothing wrong with going and seeking that that information.

1:05:31 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.

1:05:34 SPEAKER_00: Now, here's the flip side of that coin.

1:05:37 SPEAKER_00: If they don't want to tell you, or if they're acting shady about it, or they're being rude about it, uh I I would I would have some questions.

1:05:45 SPEAKER_00: But I am willing to bet you that if you're if you have a pastor that is following his calling and he's following this scripture, and he is, you know, all about The Lord, I'm sure He would have no problem showing you what it is that the church is doing in the community.

1:06:08 SPEAKER_00: Because I think it's very easy for us as United States citizens, especially because we're lazy, we're complacent, we're entitled, and all the things.

1:06:17 SPEAKER_00: There's so many names that we could say about this country, especially in today's day and age.

1:06:23 SPEAKER_00: Like, man, like don't be so quick to judge.

1:06:29 SPEAKER_00: You know, ask questions.

1:06:33 SPEAKER_00: You know, and and and and seek the answers.

1:06:36 SPEAKER_00: There's nothing wrong with that.

1:06:38 SPEAKER_00: But don't sit there and point the finger, like you said, be a keyboard warrior and talk about what the pastor is or isn't doing, or where the money is or isn't going, or this is a money scam, this or whatever.

1:06:49 SPEAKER_00: Like, like you said, what are you doing about it?

1:06:52 SPEAKER_00: Go ask questions.

1:06:54 SPEAKER_00: Go seek answers.

1:06:56 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

1:06:58 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.

1:07:00 SPEAKER_02: I think that's a good place to put a pen in it.

1:07:03 SPEAKER_02: We can uh I'm sure we can revisit revisit the megachurch topic at some some point in time.

1:07:10 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's a good thing.

1:07:11 SPEAKER_02: I think we just been going for a lot longer than we think we have, probably.

1:07:14 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.

1:07:15 SPEAKER_00: I mean that's a that's a big topic too, man.

1:07:18 SPEAKER_00: There there's so much more that we could dive into on that.

1:07:21 SPEAKER_00: And you know, I'm sure there's probably gonna be a guest on here in the near future that we could probably dive into that with too.

1:07:28 SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of people that we go to church with that we serve alongside that have really good insight and and wisdom on those things too.

1:07:38 SPEAKER_00: So we'll definitely work on trying to get them on and and and have those conversations.

1:07:45 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.

1:07:47 SPEAKER_00: Well, um, you pray us out.

1:07:48 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.

1:07:52 SPEAKER_00: Oh Lord God, I just I thank you for uh just as always just giving us this opportunity to have this platform.

1:08:03 SPEAKER_00: I thank you for just giving us the the ability to be able to have these conversations.

1:08:10 SPEAKER_00: I thank you for just giving us the wisdom and the strength and the courage as well to be able to say the thing that needs to be said.

1:08:19 SPEAKER_00: And Lord, I just ask that in that same light that you just soften these viewers' hearts, the ones that are struggling with these things, the ones that are one foot in, one foot out, or just kind of playing church or just kind of trying to look like the cool person or look like they have it all together, have all the answers, Lord.

1:08:39 SPEAKER_00: I just ask that you just have a radical encounter with them as they're listening to this episode or even just to this prayer right now, Lord.

1:08:47 SPEAKER_00: I just ask that you just move in their heart and soften it and just show them that they need you.

1:08:53 SPEAKER_00: You don't need them, you don't need us, but at the end of the day, you want us, you died on that cross for us, Lord.

1:08:59 SPEAKER_00: And I just ask that you just have an encounter with them and just show them that you want to love them, you want to have a relationship with them, Lord.

1:09:11 SPEAKER_00: And I also just ask that for the viewers that are struggling with this mega church subject, that you just soften their heart in that too, and really try and do the research to try and see what it is that that church is doing in your name with those funds that they're getting from tithes, Lord.

1:09:32 SPEAKER_00: Just help them see that there is so much that some of these churches are doing that are reaching people that have never heard the gospel, Lord, that have never had clean water, that have never had a healthy environment to live in.

1:09:47 SPEAKER_00: Or some of them just, you know, there's there's unborn babies, Lord, that are being saved with some of this money.

1:09:55 SPEAKER_00: There's there's so many different things and outreach that some of these churches are doing.

1:09:59 SPEAKER_00: And I think people are just really quick to judge, Lord.

1:10:04 SPEAKER_00: And I just ask that you just intervene in in that process and soften their hearts and just lead them one to repentance in those thoughts.

1:10:13 SPEAKER_00: But Lord, I just ask that you just lead them to see that there are so many beautiful things that come from tithing, that come from being obedient to your word.

1:10:25 SPEAKER_00: Because at the end of the day, Lord, like we've said before, it's not like we get to hook up the hearse to the U-Haul trailer and take it all with us at the end of this life anyway.

1:10:35 SPEAKER_00: We have a much beautiful kingdom that we're going to be a part of in eternity with you if we turn and repent to you and follow you and confess you as our Lord.

1:10:45 SPEAKER_00: Lord God, I just ask that you just answer any prayers that the listeners have or viewers.

1:10:53 SPEAKER_00: I just ask that you just lift their prayers up and that you hear them and that you just just pour your your never ending love over these people.

1:11:06 SPEAKER_00: It's in your beautiful name that we pray.

1:11:08 SPEAKER_00: Amen.

1:11:10 SPEAKER_00: Amen.

1:11:11 SPEAKER_02: Thank you guys for watching.

1:11:13 SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next time next time.